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oz1235
30-10-2007, 09:06 PM
I listened to the the Sport 927 Bowls Show on Sunday and one of these guys has said "That there was a protest taking place regarding the speed of the greens of a Melbourne Club". Anyone know what club are invovled?


Now, I wonder what club that can be?

Perko
30-10-2007, 09:25 PM
I listened to the the Sport 927 Bowls Show on Sunday and one of these guys has said "That there was a protest taking place regarding the speed of the greens of a Melbourne Club". Anyone know what club are invovled?


Now, I wonder what club that can be? do't listen to the show but would say Essendon is one of the clubs the other :shultz:

sauce
30-10-2007, 09:32 PM
Apparently Essendon protested about the Bundoora green.

30-10-2007, 09:39 PM
Considering the amount of negative discussions about it everywhere, including here, it was surely only a matter of time.
I guess the best protest would have been to beat them on it then protest.
No one could cry sour grapes then.
Suppose the worst thing that comes out of this is bad blood between two clubs now
Totally uneccescary had the RVBA greens committee dont their job surely.

sauce
30-10-2007, 09:43 PM
Why can't people just play the green as it is. At the end of the day both teams have to play on it. I'm not the biggest fan of the green as I have stated in previous posts however I would never go so far as to protest about it.

30-10-2007, 09:55 PM
Sauce I played there last year in the open and they had two damn good grass tracks, why so much emphasis on plastic?
Are they weak on Grass?
Hell I dont mind fast tracks but if theres a choice between plastic and grass at the same venue gimme grass anyday.

Major Ball
30-10-2007, 11:42 PM
Sauce I played there last year in the open and they had two damn good grass tracks, why so much emphasis on plastic?
Are they weak on Grass?
Hell I dont mind fast tracks but if theres a choice between plastic and grass at the same venue gimme grass anyday.

Bundoora have always played on the plastic..I actually enjoy playing there. Got to be better then the cow paddock Lalor presents to visiting teams.

Perko
30-10-2007, 11:46 PM
Sauce I played there last year in the open and they had two damn good grass tracks, why so much emphasis on plastic?
Are they weak on Grass?
Hell I dont mind fast tracks but if theres a choice between plastic and grass at the same venue gimme grass anyday.

Bundoora have always played on the plastic..I actually enjoy playing there. Got to be better then the cow paddock Lalor presents to visiting teams.and there known for playing you east west there also

31-10-2007, 05:52 AM
I know its none of my business, but I would like to express an outsiders opinion on this. I have to agree with sauce's comments:


Why can't people just play the green as it is. At the end of the day both teams have to play on it. I'm not the biggest fan of the green as I have stated in previous posts however I would never go so far as to protest about it.

I have been playing bowls for almost 10 years and I have never seen one of these timing ramp thingys, and I have to say, I never want to. Suffice to say that we dont worry about that timed speed of the greens bullshit in this District. We just play on whats presented!

I also think this minimum/maximum speed of green business only puts pressure on the green keeper. Imagine the greeny turning up at 11am to mark and roll the green for pennant only to find it running at 18+ seconds. So to make it "legal" he gives it a light spray of water and maybe forgets to roll it. If its a hot day its going to end up back at 18+ after a couple of hours anyway.

Take the pressure off your greenkeepers and just play.

Chalks1971
31-10-2007, 09:26 AM
I'm with Sauce, fark me youve got an 18 week pennant, surely one loss isnt gonna have too much of an influence on the outcome for the year.

Ive never been there, or know anyone that has, but I bet most blokes are beat before they even jump in the shower and put the creams on.

Uncle Ken
31-10-2007, 09:34 AM
I have an idea,why don't you buy those cheating bowls that don't draw they are called Premiers or Powers or Edge something like that or even easier don't throw them so hard.

31-10-2007, 10:00 AM
I have an idea,why don't you buy those cheating bowls that don't draw they are called Premiers or Powers or Edge something like that or even easier don't throw them so hard.



i use premiers and have played at bundoora and can tell you my grass line is still out to the next rink number.
im with most people get use to it and stop blaming the green.
if you want to be any good at bowls you have to be able to play any length end any pace green any tracky green.

could you imagine being selected to play for australia then walking up to the coach cameron curtis and saying "excuse me mr curtis do you mind if i sit this game out because the green is running at a speed i dont like"

get real people need to stop whinging about the green and concentrate more on learning how to adapt to different greens.

im with knackers nothing wrong with bundoora's green i enjoy playing on it everytime i go there because thats why i play bowls for the challenges.
if i wanted the game to be easy to master i would buy the lawn bowls computer game and play at home :mrgreen:

ShaneW
31-10-2007, 10:25 AM
Major Ball Wrote Bundoora have always played on the plastic..I actually enjoy playing there. Got to be better then the cow paddock Lalor presents to visiting teams.

We played at Lalor a couple of weeks ago and it was running 10sec. I heard Altona beat Lalor by 65 in a prac game

Bucks
31-10-2007, 12:25 PM
Yes, Essendon Bowling Club have lodged a Protest about Bundoora's green. Also the Division 1 club who played at Bundoora in Round 2 when the Premier side played away have lodged one also.
The pace was slowed in Round 1 when Altona defeated Bundoora quite easily. Then the next game they play it wasn't slowed to requirements to get an advantage.
When one opinon from Bundoora said "They havn't done anything about it before, so we'll continue to do it!" it leaves it open and now they have 2 protests to deal with.

Important to remember that 4 timings were taken 3 at 20 seconds and above and 1 at 18.5 into the wind.

Hearing is to be held Thursday afternoon sometime.

jabbathehut
31-10-2007, 12:41 PM
Perosnally it wouldnt bother me but its obvious bundoora do have a big advantage by playing on their plastic. i dont think you blame the clubs for protesting becuase weather you agree with the rule or not, it is there and should be adhered to. I would argue however that as long as concentrated effort has been made to reduce the speed of the green for the game, that should be enough. its not the greenies fault if the plastic is super slick. id ban plastic altoghter :)

Glory glory
31-10-2007, 12:52 PM
i'd also ban plastic or like i've said before put them all into their own section

remember west played at bundoora 1st game last season. our manager told them before it was timed if its over 17 sec there will be a complaint, so it didn't look sour grapes after losing or if we won (lost by 8 shots)

Commie
31-10-2007, 12:55 PM
Perosnally it wouldnt bother me but its obvious bundoora do have a big advantage by playing on their plastic. i dont think you blame the clubs for protesting becuase weather you agree with the rule or not, it is there and should be adhered to. I would argue however that as long as concentrated effort has been made to reduce the speed of the green for the game, that should be enough. its not the greenies fault if the plastic is super slick. id ban plastic altoghter :)

Me too. Make it carpet instead.

Major Ball
31-10-2007, 02:36 PM
Major Ball Wrote Bundoora have always played on the plastic..I actually enjoy playing there. Got to be better then the cow paddock Lalor presents to visiting teams.

We played at Lalor a couple of weeks ago and it was running 10sec. I heard Altona beat Lalor by 65 in a prac game

Pace of green means nothing..I dont really care if its 8 seconds or 18 seconds. What concerns me is a green that can obviously run good but has been under prepared and over watered creating lots of tracks. Good players who can normally play all the shots in the book with confidence are brought back to the field when playing against guys who would struggle playing shots consistantly on a good surface. When both players have no idea what line to take it definately is a great equaliser.

My point I am trying to make is people complaining about quick greens in regards to the synthetic surface at Bundoora when if you go up north or to NZ they play on that pace and more every day of the week.

Robert Doody will never be given any respect because he won the Aussie open on the slow greens at Darebin. I rate Doody and equally competent player on faster greens as well but will always be remebered for winning at Darebin for the wrong reasons.

Clubs that diliberately prepare an inferior surface for some sort of advantage are in my opinion cheating and should be dealt with by the RVBA. Not Bundoora because they play on a synthetic green which runs quite well. On the other hand you have clubs that just have bad greens. Why I bring up Lalor is that I played in a tournament 3 weeks previously and the greens ran quite well. I wasnt aware of any flash flood that hit the area prior to Pennant or the roller was broken down.

Glory glory
31-10-2007, 02:55 PM
undedrstand what ya saying major but i'll go one futher. its no more try n to cheat than those playing on carpet or plastic its all about winning and i don't know what the greens were like at lalor but they won and thats what counts to them.

how do you know they were under prepared. they've had good greens at lalor for a while now. things that go around can turn around. it wasn't all that long ago a club near us at west had crap greens now they are very good. just like west a few years ago they had brilliant greens now they are getting older and need major works they can struggle

31-10-2007, 03:36 PM
undedrstand what ya saying major but i'll go one futher. its no more try n to cheat than those playing on carpet or plastic its all about winning and i don't know what the greens were like at lalor but they won and thats what counts to them.

how do you know they were under prepared. they've had good greens at lalor for a while now. things that go around can turn around. it wasn't all that long ago a club near us at west had crap greens now they are very good. just like west a few years ago they had brilliant greens now they are getting older and need major works they can struggle


i have been going to lalor for 7 years playing either pennant or blaying in their eureka fours and i can tell you that the green in front of the club has always been hard to play. it has runs in it and when the wind gets up it becomes quite tricky to play.
im not bagging the club or the green staff just stating a fact on how the green plays.

Major Ball
31-10-2007, 04:10 PM
undedrstand what ya saying major but i'll go one futher. its no more try n to cheat than those playing on carpet or plastic its all about winning and i don't know what the greens were like at lalor but they won and thats what counts to them.

how do you know they were under prepared. they've had good greens at lalor for a while now. things that go around can turn around. it wasn't all that long ago a club near us at west had crap greens now they are very good. just like west a few years ago they had brilliant greens now they are getting older and need major works they can struggle

When your running a tournament its not good to have poor greens as people will not return. With Pennant you have to play where you are drawn to play. Hence from my experience on playing a tournament there a few weeks earlier I beleive the green could have been better than it was. This post is not about winning or losing. The teams that handles the conditions better on the day will win most of the time. I just dont beleive it fair to bag Bundoora becasue of a quick synthetic when you have crap grass greens around. You can twist my post around all your like I will say what I think when the greens are poor. We compliment good greens why shouldnt we be entitled to bag poor greens especially when you know they can run better.

BTW GG it was probably the heard of sheep they had coming in through the gates after the game that told me they were under prepared :lol:

dunny
31-10-2007, 04:15 PM
commercial club in albury has 2 plastics and they always run 18-20 for pennant and the draw on them is huge,even my powers are way over on the next rink and drawing sideways when finishing the last 3 foot. everyone here in our district hates playing on the crap but all know that they struggle on grass away from home.nobody ever has or will protest it knowing u only have to play on it once a year.then again with the heat rule where pennant is called off when the temp at the playing venue reaches 39 you might not have to play there at all due to it being concrete surrounds,plastic greens and surrounded on 2 sides by club and 2 story carpark its always 3 degrees hotter there then clubs with grass

Commie
31-10-2007, 04:16 PM
I love good greens banter. :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

dunny
31-10-2007, 04:26 PM
[quote="Glory glory":2dc4cef5]undedrstand what ya saying major but i'll go one futher. its no more try n to cheat than those playing on carpet or plastic its all about winning and i don't know what the greens were like at lalor but they won and thats what counts to them.

how do you know they were under prepared. they've had good greens at lalor for a while now. things that go around can turn around. it wasn't all that long ago a club near us at west had crap greens now they are very good. just like west a few years ago they had brilliant greens now they are getting older and need major works they can struggle

BTW GG it was probably the heard of sheep they had coming in through the gates after the game that told me they were under prepared :lol:[/quote:2dc4cef5] :smile: :smile: :smile: :mad: :smile: :smile: :smile: bloody brillint major

31-10-2007, 04:29 PM
I love good greens banter. :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
Almost as much as I love bad greens banter :smile: :smile: :smile:

magot
31-10-2007, 04:41 PM
we would have ratherd win , than protest but we did state that before play begun we would do it no matter what the result because they continue to ignore the guidelines.
Call it sour grapes but if this changes the way they approach games you will all thank us as well.

dunny
31-10-2007, 04:45 PM
seems as though bundoora have a psychological advantage when playing on the plastic but still trying to work out if its them feeling more confident on it or opposition being more worried bout playing on it

Glory glory
31-10-2007, 04:47 PM
we would have ratherd win , than protest but we did state that before play begun we would do it no matter what the result because they continue to ignore the guidelines.
Call it sour grapes but if this changes the way they approach games you will all thank us as well.

i think you've done the right thing magot, they need to fix it. and unless clubs do have a say they won't change

but were does it go from there the rvba need to make a stand

31-10-2007, 04:49 PM
why dont we just play bowls from the lounge room.
fair dinkum you people would last two weeks up north.
all this rubbish is starting to remind me of goldilocks and the three bears.

"oh this green is too fast"
"and this green is too slow"
"this green has to many runs in it"
"but this good green you might fluke twice a year is just right"

stop whinging and learn to adapt to different surroundings F.uck it isnt rocket science.

some of you people make the game harder than what it is

dunny
31-10-2007, 04:51 PM
why dont we just play bowls from the lounge room.
fair dinkum you people would last two weeks up north.
all this rubbish is starting to remind me of goldilocks and the three bears.

"oh this green is too fast"
"and this green is too slow"
"this green has to many runs in it"
"but this good green you might fluke twice a year is just right"

stop whinging and learn to adapt to different surroundings F.uck it isnt rocket science.

some of you people make the game harder than what it is :smile: :smile: :smile: its an easy game isnt it oz only 2 things to get right line and weight,and if u are a raker like shoom its only the weight :mad:

Davo
31-10-2007, 04:53 PM
why dont we just play bowls from the lounge room.
fair dinkum you people would last two weeks up north.
all this rubbish is starting to remind me of goldilocks and the three bears.

"oh this green is too fast"
"and this green is too slow"
"this green has to many runs in it"
"but this good green you might fluke twice a year is just right"
stop whinging and learn to adapt to different surroundings F.uck it isnt rocket science.

some of you people make the game harder than what it is

Goldilocks!! Just fell off me chair oz. :smile: Farkin brilliant pal!!! :mad:

magot
31-10-2007, 04:58 PM
before you shoot your mouth oz check where people played mate ive played pennant in queensland(KALLANGUR) and pennant in nsw(CHATSWOOD) and pennant on plastic (MELTON) in vic so it has nothing to do with the speed or adapting!!

31-10-2007, 05:01 PM
before you shoot your mouth oz check where people played mate ive played pennant in queensland(KALLANGUR) and pennant in nsw(CHATSWOOD) and pennant on plastic (MELTON) in vic so it has nothing to do with the speed or adapting!!


im not shooting my mouth off im just sick of hearing about the conditions of greens i think we are lucky as a country we get our greens better than most.
maybe people should do less whinging and more enjoying the game

Glory glory
31-10-2007, 05:03 PM
before you shoot your mouth oz check where people played mate ive played pennant in queensland(KALLANGUR) and pennant in nsw(CHATSWOOD) and pennant on plastic (MELTON) in vic so it has nothing to do with the speed or adapting!!

once again i agree. its about them winning.

Major Ball
31-10-2007, 05:30 PM
before you shoot your mouth oz check where people played mate ive played pennant in queensland(KALLANGUR) and pennant in nsw(CHATSWOOD) and pennant on plastic (MELTON) in vic so it has nothing to do with the speed or adapting!!


im not shooting my mouth off im just sick of hearing about the conditions of greens i think we are lucky as a country we get our greens better than most.
maybe people should do less whinging and more enjoying the game

There are a few different topics here in the same thread:

1/Complaints about the speed speed of the plastic.

2/Greens that can run better but are diliberatley prepared to provide a poor surface.

3/Just plain crap greens with no amount of preparation would make better.

Now, no one can disagree with you Gaz but the whole problem in bowls is too many secrets, you cant say that etc etc. Well I reckon the bowls forum is a good place to raise issues which piss bowlers off and greens in my opinion probably heads the list. Lets not be quiet about it but put clubs on notice that we as bowlers dont want to play on crap every second day.

If a club provides ordinary greens for a bowls tournament I can guarantee that I will not play there again next year. Saying that the same goes for the lunch as well :mrgreen:

All we can ask for as bowlers is that the greens are prepared as best as possible when we have to play games on them. I dont think that is too much too ask.

dunny
31-10-2007, 05:41 PM
:i'm with stupid:

swoosha
31-10-2007, 06:44 PM
Oz the man that has everyone else to carry him and Davo ...no offence mate but you want 21 mtrs back...just bowl mate.......

31-10-2007, 06:49 PM
Oz the man that has everyone else to carry him and Davo ...no offence mate but you want 21 mtrs back...just bowl mate.......

good point swoosha thats why it dont bother me what the green is like when i have those guys following me :smile: :smile:

Glory glory
31-10-2007, 07:05 PM
ya back in the ones oz

magot
31-10-2007, 07:06 PM
thx for the support swoosha and gg here i was starting to question my ability because of oz. :grin: :grin:

31-10-2007, 07:21 PM
thx for the support swoosha and gg here i was starting to question my ability because of oz. :grin: :grin:


all in fun magot i always like to sit on the other side of the fence ;)

31-10-2007, 07:22 PM
Personally I couldnt give a rats about how fast a green was as long as its a reasonable playing surface
Its when you get served up a track like this one I featured last year that I draw the line, this was used for a district singles championship.
Ran at best 9 seconds and had tram lines on every rink.
Fast, thats fine, mullock heaps like this though, they are a bloody disgrace.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2627/img00541lp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

31-10-2007, 07:24 PM
ya back in the ones oz


had my first game back last week G.G it was kind of weird after the game considering i was the only change and we got beat.
convinced myself i was a jinx.
lets hope we win this week otherwise i will be dropped for bringing the side bad luck :smile:

31-10-2007, 07:25 PM
Personally I couldnt give a rats about how fast a green was as long as its a reasonable playing surface
Its when you get served up a track like this one I featured last year that I draw the line, this was used for a district singles championship.
Ran at best 9 seconds and had tram lines on every rink.
Fast, thats fine, mullock heaps like this though, they are a bloody disgrace.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2627/img00541lp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

whats wrong it bushy i see some green there :smile: :smile: :smile:

magot
31-10-2007, 07:31 PM
I had a thousand things i was going to reply with oz but from that last comment ive just realised it aint worth my time , i just which i had of realised earlier! :oops: :oops:

Davo
31-10-2007, 07:49 PM
Oz the man that has everyone else to carry him and Davo ...no offence mate but you want 21 mtrs back...just bowl mate.......

None taken Swoosha!! After playing 21m short ends for 11 years I just don't think 23m is a true short end. I'll say no more & just bowl!! :mrgreen: ;)

eelynot
02-11-2007, 09:24 AM
does anyone know the outcome of this protest

Howdy_bundy
02-11-2007, 11:30 AM
Protest dismissed.

02-11-2007, 11:31 AM
surprise :!: :roll:

02-11-2007, 11:44 AM
it just goes to show you what is the point of having a rule to say greens must start of at a certain speed. if penalties are not going to be enforced.
i think this has now opened a can of worms and feel people are just going to run their greens at whatever pace is an advantage to their team.

clubs now know due to the otcome of this protest that nothing will happen if your green is running to fast :mrgreen:

Commie
02-11-2007, 11:48 AM
it just goes to show you what is the point of having a rule to say greens must start of at a certain speed. if penalties are not going to be enforced.
i think this has now opened a can of worms and feel people are just going to run their greens at whatever pace is an advantage to their team.

clubs now know due to the otcome of this protest that nothing will happen if your green is running to fast :mrgreen:

... or too slow. :shock: :shock: :shock:

02-11-2007, 11:56 AM
it just goes to show you what is the point of having a rule to say greens must start of at a certain speed. if penalties are not going to be enforced.
i think this has now opened a can of worms and feel people are just going to run their greens at whatever pace is an advantage to their team.

clubs now know due to the otcome of this protest that nothing will happen if your green is running to fast :mrgreen:
Exactly right, Gremlin. The RVBA obviously spent days and weeks at committee level coming up with the speed policy and then making changes to it over the past couple of years. And for what?

Obviously these guys were keen on getting together for afternoon tea and a chin wag. They never had any intention of enforcing the policy.

Glory glory
02-11-2007, 12:20 PM
it doesdn't suprise me

can remember a few years back we were playing hampton rsl, at the same time fitzroy (before they had plastic) were playin soc.

we didn't start till 2pm. the rule states any interuptions for rain the game must be finished before 6pm

we mentioned this to the hampton manager and umpire, but they were winning and kept us playin till near 7pm. yes they did win.

at the same time fitzroy over at soc walked of at 6pm, as the rule states game over.

well guess what, both losing mangers complained to the rvba. bad luck, fitzroy lost and so did we

so what/whos right or wrong. cause the ruling is knackerd

jabbathehut
02-11-2007, 01:28 PM
pretty much the same as skippers deciding not to challenge jacks over 21 meters instead of 23. IF there are rules there shey should be abided by and when breached, enforced.

Commie
02-11-2007, 01:39 PM
By the way, Jabba, what does cow tipping entail. :?: :?: :?:

02-11-2007, 01:40 PM
pretty much the same as skippers deciding not to challenge jacks over 21 meters instead of 23. IF there are rules there shey should be abided by and when breached, enforced.
That gets up my nose. Especially when my skip lets a short one by the opposition go and they call for the tape the first time my side rolls one 4 inches short. Sportsmanship, my ar$e.

jabbathehut
02-11-2007, 01:48 PM
By the way, Jabba, what does cow tipping entail. :?: :?: :?:

cow tipping is a sport played by many deliquant youths living in rural england. i shall explain the basic concept of the game but you have to understand there are many complexities like electric fences, the police who take a dim view on this great game and farmers with guns. you sneak into a field after dark (thus allowing you time to have a few ales after work to build up your courage) you scout around for a cow that has fallen asleep standing up. then, with two team mates you charge the cow in an atttempt to knock it over. now what you are hopeing for when you do this is that you spooke the herd and you have to run out of the field, in the dark, dodging cow poo, holes, fences etc etc and make it to saftey. to some this may sound a little cruel but you are infact providing a good cardio vascular workout for the cows. it should only be played when your drunk and in the absence of anything else to do, which in the english countryside is quite often!!. once you reach a certian standard, you may feel confident enough to tackle larger prey, like a bull! i always advise against this

gottabeup
02-11-2007, 01:50 PM
They play a similar sport in NZ, its called sheep tipping. Problem is they rock and rock and rock it but just can't quite get it to tip over

:mad:

Commie
02-11-2007, 01:57 PM
I'm a farm boy, but I've never seen cattle sleeping on their feet. I just needed to get out more. Maybe it's a thing poll hereford cattle don't do.

jabbathehut
02-11-2007, 02:01 PM
well it is dark so they could be awake still. i just guesed they were asleep! im hardly an animal expert. i do know they take some mooooving. they are heavy critters

redliner
02-11-2007, 02:06 PM
Perhaps sleeping bowlers about 8.30pm on Saturday nights after pennant, propped up against the bar may be a suitable "cow" substitute????

jabbathehut
02-11-2007, 02:12 PM
yea maybe only you would mis that mooooooo sound as they fall. anyway lets get back on topic!!!! ban the plastic

dunny
02-11-2007, 02:15 PM
now that the protest has been dismissed watch the green speed up and up and up,18.5 will be a slow day at the office any takers on what the quickest it will get??

02-11-2007, 02:28 PM
By the way, Jabba, what does cow tipping entail. :?: :?: :?:

cow tipping is a sport played by many deliquant youths living in rural england. i shall explain the basic concept of the game but you have to understand there are many complexities like electric fences, the police who take a dim view on this great game and farmers with guns. you sneak into a field after dark (thus allowing you time to have a few ales after work to build up your courage) you scout around for a cow that has fallen asleep standing up. then, with two team mates you charge the cow in an atttempt to knock it over. now what you are hopeing for when you do this is that you spooke the herd and you have to run out of the field, in the dark, dodging cow poo, holes, fences etc etc and make it to saftey. to some this may sound a little cruel but you are infact providing a good cardio vascular workout for the cows. it should only be played when your drunk and in the absence of anything else to do, which in the english countryside is quite often!!. once you reach a certian standard, you may feel confident enough to tackle larger prey, like a bull! i always advise against this




jabba thats a classic :mad:

Keith Maniac
02-11-2007, 03:09 PM
By the way, Jabba, what does cow tipping entail. :?: :?: :?:

cow tipping is a sport played by many deliquant youths living in rural england. i shall explain the basic concept of the game but you have to understand there are many complexities like electric fences, the police who take a dim view on this great game and farmers with guns. you sneak into a field after dark (thus allowing you time to have a few ales after work to build up your courage) you scout around for a cow that has fallen asleep standing up. then, with two team mates you charge the cow in an atttempt to knock it over. now what you are hopeing for when you do this is that you spooke the herd and you have to run out of the field, in the dark, dodging cow poo, holes, fences etc etc and make it to saftey. to some this may sound a little cruel but you are infact providing a good cardio vascular workout for the cows. it should only be played when your drunk and in the absence of anything else to do, which in the english countryside is quite often!!. once you reach a certian standard, you may feel confident enough to tackle larger prey, like a bull! i always advise against this




jabba thats a classic :mad:

Thanks Jabba!

I think Gremlin wants to start a local league!! :smile: :smile: :smile:

jabbathehut
02-11-2007, 03:12 PM
any tips, pm me :lol:

Australian Lawn Bowler
02-11-2007, 04:34 PM
Anyone know the basis of the dismissal?

MM

Commie
02-11-2007, 04:39 PM
I don't understand why there are rules on green speed if they are not going to be enforced. To stretch the point, why do we bother all wearing matching club shirts or have the same rings on our bowls or wear clothing with the Bowls Australia logo.
It seems the RVBA is a toothless, brainless dinosaur. :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:

kosbar
02-11-2007, 04:50 PM
I don't understand why there are rules on green speed if they are not going to be enforced. To stretch the point, why do we bother all wearing matching club shirts or have the same rings on our bowls or wear clothing with the Bowls Australia logo.
It seems the RVBA is a toothless, brainless dinosaur. :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:

kosbar
02-11-2007, 04:57 PM
totally concur ---- why make rules that won't be enforced.
Why rate greens --- we still get rostered on some cow paddocks while good greens nearby stand under utilized. Played last year at Doutta Galla in a pennant match, the worst green possibly ever served up for a pennant match, and had been for weeks, yet Buckley Park and Clifton Park locally had rinks spare.
The mob running the show have totally lost the respect of the players, and that does not happen in many sports.

dunny
02-11-2007, 04:57 PM
why dosnt a club or a group find out how toothless they are,and take them on with an issue

magot
02-11-2007, 06:18 PM
so even though it was dismissed now it seems every one is with us for having a go and against the rvba for not upholding! Thats totally different to the posts a week ago when it was announced we were protesting

Perko
02-11-2007, 06:44 PM
totally concur ---- why make rules that won't be enforced.
Why rate greens --- we still get rostered on some cow paddocks while good greens nearby stand under utilized. Played last year at Doutta Galla in a pennant match, the worst green possibly ever served up for a pennant match, and had been for weeks, yet Buckley Park and Clifton Park locally had rinks spare.
The mob running the show have totally lost the respect of the players, and that does not happen in many sports. agree with you ''kosbar'' Doutta was in a very sad way,brand new tops 6 months later you would be lucky to see 1 rink of grass between the 2 greens :shock: basically they where un playable in November, there a good bunch of blokes down there who last season did the greens volintary, this season they are getting advice on good maintenance practices and the greens have improved heaps still some work to do but alls happy at the club now :cool:

kosbar
03-11-2007, 09:13 PM
Interesting situation at Strathmore today.
Home team in Div 3 puts Reservoir on its carpet green. Strathmore has two grass greens as well.
Synthetic green timed at 19 secs, Reservoir refuse to play, the rinks are reallocated, and the game is played on grass.

kosbar
03-11-2007, 09:15 PM
Understand that RVBA decision in the Bundoora v Essendon game, did not go Essendon's way because a rule had not been written to cover the situation.

Australian Lawn Bowler
03-11-2007, 09:18 PM
And, as was said a few years back, guidelines are there to be broken!

Typical of the RVBA.

As someone already said, watch the green speeds on synthetics go up now.

Monty measured at 18 today!

MM

Perko
03-11-2007, 09:20 PM
Interesting situation at Strathmore today.
Home team in Div 3 puts Reservoir on its carpet green. Strathmore has two grass greens as well.
Synthetic green timed at 19 secs, Reservoir refuse to play, the rinks are reallocated, and the game is played on grass. you can not play bowls on that green anything above 15 there is not enough room on ditch rinks even when it was grass they whinged then now they wanna play on a 19 second carpet :???:

David South
07-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Understand that RVBA decision in the Bundoora v Essendon game, did not go Essendon's way because a rule had not been written to cover the situation.
I don't know of any Rule in Victoria that would prescribe the speed greens have to run at. People seem to believe there is such a rule, however, and making a protest implies that the protesters think some rule has been broken. Have I missed something?

I understand people designing and constructing synthetic greens are advised to make them so that they run between 14 and 16 seconds, but there is no-one with the power to make that compulsory.

The RVBA greens comittee can also declare a green unfit for pennant, but obviously they aren't prepared to do that just because it runs very quickly.

Australian Lawn Bowler
08-11-2007, 10:35 AM
My error.

Montmorency was measured at 19.2!

The problem with the fast greens is this:

For the most part, especially the carpets, unlike grass greens which are more at the mercy of wider issues such as moisture, substrate and so on, their speed can actually BE CONTROLLED.

The fact that a Club decides to run them at a given speed means that they are deliberately flouting these guidelines and making a mockery of the Greens Committee and bring the competition into disrepute.

I would be out inspecting these greens and if too fast demanding that a plastic be brushed or a carpet loosened and then retiming. Once this has been done to the controlling body's satisfaction I would the tell them to keep it there or have their green deemed unfit for Pennant.

muppet
09-11-2007, 08:40 PM
Today the RVBA attended Bundoora UNANNOUNCED and timed the so called unplayable surface off the chute and found that not only is the green playable but it ran at 16.75 seconds. My advice to all clubs is don't look on the Greens Committee as the enemy but give them a chance to help and give advice. Bundoora have continued to work on the so called problem with success and they should be proud of the efforts they have afforded, the topic should now be closed. The word is that if your greens don't comply then maybe you will be on the complaints list remember 13-17 seconds outside that and you may be on the hit list from reports by your friends next door. ;) ;) ;) ;)

09-11-2007, 09:07 PM
Today the RVBA attended Bundoora UNANNOUNCED and timed the so called unplayable surface off the chute and found that not only is the green playable but it ran at 16.75 seconds. My advice to all clubs is don't look on the Greens Committee as the enemy but give them a chance to help and give advice. Bundoora have continued to work on the so called problem with success and they should be proud of the efforts they have afforded, the topic should now be closed. The word is that if your greens don't comply then maybe you will be on the complaints list remember 13-17 seconds outside that and you may be on the hit list from reports by your friends next door. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Be good if it was true I guess ;)
Pity it was Un Announced as maybe a few "Witnesses" may have had an interest :smile:
Was there a headwind holding the test marble back :mrgreen:
Sorry to be sceptical, but having seen these "Greens inspectors" in action for so many years in different areas etc its hard to imagine one actually knowing what they are about ;)
So all of these bowlers who have complained about the speed of Bundoora are a pack of liars who just cant bowl on fast greens
Well I'll be buttered on both sides :shock: :shock: :smile:

Perko
09-11-2007, 10:16 PM
on the subject of greens inspectors I had a green rated B cause they reckon the green was heavily infested with POA yet another club of mine was rated A and has more POA in the one graded B :???: are these blokes for real

09-11-2007, 10:27 PM
Somehow the sceptic in me says that if you are good mates with those conducting tests etc, are a bit outspoken and can handle these people you get good ratings, if youre offside with them you dont.
How close to the mark are we :cool:
Are they unbiased?
Or perhaps swayed by the old mates syndrome a bit?

09-11-2007, 11:06 PM
Are they unbiased?
Or perhaps swayed by the old mates syndrome a bit?
Perhaps? Of course they are. What qualification do they need? Zero. It's an elected position. What a joke. :???:

Glory glory
10-11-2007, 05:47 AM
on the subject of greens inspectors I had a green rated B cause they reckon the green was heavily infested with POA yet another club of mine was rated A and has more POA in the one graded B :???: are these blokes for real

they cant rate greens cause of the poa infestation. hows this stkildas green was inspected threw the fence cause they couldn't get in and the form was at middle park cause they know i do both

these guys are dickheads we know that perko, i've given up on um

Australian Lawn Bowler
12-11-2007, 04:14 PM
The PROBLEM with the inspection is that, in this actual case, it is UNNECESSARY!

The green was OFFICIALLY timed at 18.5 just as Montmorency's was 19.2 and submitted.

The Greens Committee should be acting on THAT as well as going out and doing spot inspections and acting on those.

What they're NOW going to say is, "Well it ran fast on Saturday but it's now OK."

Pretty pointless no?

MM

12-11-2007, 04:46 PM
The PROBLEM with the inspection is that, in this actual case, it is UNNECESSARY!

The green was OFFICIALLY timed at 18.5 just as Montmorency's was 19.2 and submitted.

The Greens Committee should be acting on THAT as well as going out and doing spot inspections and acting on those.

What they're NOW going to say is, "Well it ran fast on Saturday but it's now OK."

Pretty pointless no?

MM


we are at monty this week is that the top or bottom green?

i played on it two seasons back(bottom green)

and it ran a good 14 with a 12 second draw line what has gone on in two seasons :roll:

muppet
12-11-2007, 04:53 PM
ALB I could not agree with you more if they had the guts to just turn up at clubs and time the greens then half the clubs would be having restless nights.
On the other hand I don't believe it would be fair to green keepers who are trying to keep greens in a condition which is playable, I am not talking synthetic but bent and other turf.
Water is precious and yet we see synthetics being watered for no apparent reason but to control the speed.
I am sure peter Hanlon would have egg on his face if the greens at his club were timed without notice.

Scottie
12-11-2007, 05:09 PM
The PROBLEM with the inspection is that, in this actual case, it is UNNECESSARY!

The green was OFFICIALLY timed at 18.5 just as Montmorency's was 19.2 and submitted.

The Greens Committee should be acting on THAT as well as going out and doing spot inspections and acting on those.

What they're NOW going to say is, "Well it ran fast on Saturday but it's now OK."

Pretty pointless no?

MM

Exactly the reason that the use of the bowls ramp is compulsory in Perth metro Pennants (minimum speed of 13secs - definitely no 'maximum' speed rating). Strictly speaking, in the presence of the visiting manager (although most managers are prepared to accept the green speed published, unless it is obviously wrong - in which case they can demand a test). The Greens Committee will follow up on complaints about coverage, etc., but obviously complaints concerning green speed cannot be verified two or three days after the game in question.

I was just watching a recording of the Australia/england Tri-nations triples game which was played at Mosman Park in WA in October. It is rumoured that the greenkeeper was informed that he was to prepare the green to run at no more than 13secs for the event - whereas for any other game that been would have been running around 15secs. Don't know who BA were trying to favour - or was that a requirement for TV coverage?

Robdog
12-11-2007, 06:21 PM
I was just watching a recording of the Australia/england Tri-nations triples game which was played at Mosman Park in WA in October. It is rumoured that the greenkeeper was informed that he was to prepare the green to run at no more than 13secs for the event - whereas for any other game that been would have been running around 15secs. Don't know who BA were trying to favour - or was that a requirement for TV coverage?

Well I know from personal experience that Halekulani greens are far from slow (though the third one is sh!t beyond anything I've ever known), so they're not leaning towards Sheriffs kind of speed, and there would be no way that BA would be favouring the English on home turf, so that would lead *me* to believe that it's for television purposes

As it is they already cut out too many ends for the TV, so I'm a little thankful that its slow, but it doesn't make for quite as much quality in the match IMO

12-11-2007, 06:28 PM
BA has been doing this for years now, and Why?
Simple, for televised games they want raker type heads, and they are Victorian Based basically (BA).
They would also know that playing outdoors and get a wisp of wind combined with decent paced greens and you are not going to get much of an exhibition with perhaps two or three good bowls in the head on many occasions.
I guess as an exhibition, bowls looks better on TV played indoors, but as a test of skill and ability nothing beats fast greens and outdoors.

majmeyer
28-11-2007, 06:24 PM
On the other hand I don't believe it would be fair to green keepers who are trying to keep greens in a condition which is playable, I am not talking synthetic but bent and other turf.

Muppet,

Exactly why MINIMUM speeds should NOT be enforced. These are quite often (but not always) subject to the vagaries of the weather whereas synthetics are simply a case of good or poor maintenance which is almost completely controllable.

Certainly, in the case of slow greens, a green that is consistently 12 or under should be rendered unfit by the Association after a warning. If they get it running 14.5 the next week then questions should also be asked as to WHY this is not achievable on a regular basis.

It's HERE where Greens Committee discretion should be exercised...assuming they have any REAL expertise to do it!

MM

jabbathehut
28-11-2007, 06:31 PM
why should it matter if the club want a 12 second green but could easily achieve 14 seconds. the green is there for ITS memebers not its opponents. we play the isle of white each year and they delibratley leave the grass long, water it heavily the night before and hve it running about 9 seconds for middleton cup ( similar to group).... we also play oxford who choose to play on the worst green in their county. one year it ran about 9 seconds at best. we had no complaints becuase we had an equally big advantage when we play at home and are on a 13-14 second track.

Glory glory
28-11-2007, 07:13 PM
13 14 sec tracks who ya kiddin jabba

11 maybe 12 ok

jabbathehut
28-11-2007, 07:21 PM
haha know it would have been 13 but youd not want to bowl on it. rink 7 at atherley is well known as the rink of death. many players over the years have made their debuet on it and not got another game for a few years

majmeyer
29-11-2007, 12:11 PM
Jabba,

Because the guidelines say 13-17.

I think we need to get to the CRUX of this issue and that is that the Association SHOULD be creating guidelines and Rules that provide for a REASONABLE CONTEST to take place between two sides in THEIR competition. Running a 20 second plastic or watering a grass green down to 10.5 does not provide this.

I'd like to see a local competition rule brought in that states that a Club MUST provide a green suitable for the conduct of a fair and competitive outcome with a 12 - 16 second window also based in the rules. Failure to provide said surface in the first instance invokes a warning, a second loss of points and third suspension of the green from play in Pennant for the remainder of the season.

The RVBA are there to TELL the Clubs what to provide for their comp, not the other way around.

MM

Davo
29-11-2007, 12:30 PM
Jabba,

Because the guidelines say 13-17.

I think we need to get to the CRUX of this issue and that is that the Association SHOULD be creating guidelines and Rules that provide for a REASONABLE CONTEST to take place between two sides in THEIR competition. Running a 20 second plastic or watering a grass green down to 10.5 does not provide this.

I'd like to see a local competition rule brought in that states that a Club MUST provide a green suitable for the conduct of a fair and competitive outcome with a 12 - 16 second window also based in the rules. Failure to provide said surface in the first instance invokes a warning, a second loss of points and third suspension of the green from play in Pennant for the remainder of the season.

The RVBA are there to TELL the Clubs what to provide for their comp, not the other way around.

MM

Scottie could confirm this but I think WA have a policy regarding green speeds along the lines that you suggest Mitch.